Interview with Kevin Smith, Tourism Management Program Coordinator

Over the past 20 years, Kevin Smith has worked his way up through the ranks of the tourism industry, from leading tours in South America for G Adventures, to destination marketing, to coordinating Humber College’s Tourism Management program. He breaks down the trends in the hospitality and tourism sector, offers insights into how to increase your chances of getting a job, and how to stay relevant in the era of online travel booking.

Read the interview below. You can also watch his series of videos here.

Who are you and what do you do?

My name is Kevin Smith, and I am the coordinator of the Tourism Program here at Humber College. We are the biggest institution for tourism education in Canada. We have a very large, very complex program, and we provide education to people who want to enter the tourism industry in Canada.

You’re an industry veteran, having worked for some leading travel brands. Can you tell us about your career trajectory and the roles you’ve held?

I've had a really diverse career in the travel industry. I've done everything from working on the ground, guiding long tours—48 days from Mexico City down to Panama City. I have started operations in Europe for G Adventures. I've done revenue management and worked for Quark Expeditions, which is a specialized tour operator, creating new products for them and developing pricing—that was a really interesting job. I worked for a tour operator named Toucan Travel, doing their sales and marketing. I did that for a number of years as well, which I really enjoyed. And before this, I was working for a company called Development Counsellors International, working for destination clients such as Ecuador, Australia and California, helping them to develop their export business, actually get more Canadians to go to their destinations. And I finally ended up here at Humber College, coordinating the program. I've been here for about three years now, because I'd always taught part-time throughout my career, and the opportunity came up, and I just thought, "This is too good to pass up." So, I've been here for three years and really enjoyed sharing my experiences, and my passion for the industry, with students and those who want to get into this industry.

You’ve been in this sector for 15 years. How has it changed?

What's so great about this industry is that it is a $7 trillion industry. Outside of petroleum, it is the world's biggest legal industry, which means there's always work, and it's so diverse. It's hard when people enter the program and they don't recognize how diverse the industry is and how many different opportunities they could have working in travel.

The industry has changed a lot, and as many people, I would probably guess the internet has totally changed the industry—for worse and for better. You know, it has created a lot of new opportunities as well. I'd say over the past 10 years, I can't think of any industry in the world that has undergone more change than travel, and again, a lot of that is due to the internet. What's interesting is that people thought that the internet would be the end of travel, or the way that people booked and sourced their travel. What we're finding is that there is obviously some change in that regard, but it still comes back to the fact this is a communication-based business. It's a service-based industry, and people who are great at service, who love travel and love sharing that with people, will always find work in this industry.

There are some really key trends that we have certainly noticed, even over the past five years. Obviously, demographics play a big part in this. The baby boomers now, who are in retirement mode... a good chunk of them have a lot of disposable money and time. We have such a great market there, and it's just a huge, huge market as well. What's interesting about that market is, and this is a big trend, what they want is the customized experience. They want the personalized, authentic experience. So, that presents many opportunities to change the product we're delivering. I think that the idea of, you know, sending someone down on a $600 cruise, well, that still is happening. But people want something more meaningful, I guess, because they've done that, maybe, and they're finally in retirement, and now they can actually go explore and have some fun and spend some time.

What are the millennial and Gen Z travel trends?

Again, there's a lot of research on this about what Millennials and Gen Zs are looking for. There are a couple of really interesting trends. One thing is definitely that they're looking for more purpose in their travel. We find that they care more about the company's environmental commitments. They typically want to do something that will actually benefit them personally. It's not just necessarily a package vacation. They really want to feel that they've gotten something personally out of the trip. So, that is a big trend amongst younger travellers.

What's interesting is the old style of backpacking and sleeping in hostels, six to a room... this generation, interestingly, surprisingly to me, seems to want a little bit more comfort. And, I think maybe that is the boomers transferring the money down, because they're willing to pay a little bit more to have that comfort. It's become easier to travel in comfort now, with Airbnb and some of the new travel distributors, so maybe that's where it comes from. But, a lot of the hostels in Europe have had to totally change their product, because people don't want to sleep in a room with 10 people anymore. They really want a little room. They want an ensuite bathroom. So, it's a generation that maybe is a little more pampered, but willing to pay for that, and for those experiences. They do value travel just as much as the generations before them, if not more so. So, the demand is still there.

One thing that comes up in the research that surprises me is that there's a strong trend amongst millennial travellers to go back to travel agents. So, they're looking online because they're, you know, online addicts, and they're finding what they want—and then, they still, more than you would ever expect, are going back to the travel agent. They just want somebody who's got the expertise before they shell out. Because clicking on a $3,000 item is pretty scary, and there are so many variables in travel. They still want to know that behind that booking, there's someone they can deal with when something goes wrong, or that they've gotten the right trip for them. So there's still a strong demand for that face-to-face retail travel. Good question.

What are the various roles and streams in this sector, when it comes to looking for work?

So one great thing about this industry is the diversity that we find. There are just so many opportunities in this industry, it's almost difficult to discuss. Sometimes, when students come into this industry, they think, you know, for example, retail travel. No one visits a travel agency anymore. There's just no work in that. But, what we're finding, more and more, is a return to the retail agent. People still want face-to-face communication, and they're willing to pay big bucks for it.

And what's exciting is the way the retail agents' network has also changed. So, the job profile of somebody sitting in an office from eight to six waiting for someone to come in the door is totally gone. Now, retail agents often work from home. They're marketers; they are salespeople. Often, they are customizing packages, so they're getting into almost becoming their own little tour operators. So, that, in itself, has become quite an exciting position. And the image people have of the travel agent, by the time they're finished their program, they're like, I had no idea this was an opportunity.

Some of our grads do extremely well. You know, five years out, they've got a book of business, they're travelling the world, and they're selling product that they really love. So retail travel is definitely still an opportunity. We find students who go to especially the customized tour operators—these kinds of boutique, niche tour operators—find huge opportunity. We find that our students also go to the airlines. A lot of the people in the airline industry are sort of in that boomer generation, and they're sort of ready to retire, and the airlines are desperate to find good young people who have the customer service skills and who love the industry, to replace them. So, lots of opportunities there as well.

Destination marketing, as I myself have done for quite some time, is also an option. You know, marketing destinations is great for people who are good at marketing and communications. Definitely, there is opportunity there as well.

So again, it's not like a student studying early childhood education, where you know they will be working with two-year-olds. That's going to be their career. Whereas, in the travel industry, you can study travel and work at a retail office, and then God knows where you're going to end up 10 years down the road. It's just so varied that it's almost difficult to track someone's career in the industry these days.

You mentioned that airlines are desperate for young, skilled people. Where are other openings, or areas of high demand? Who succeeds in this sector?

One thing I would definitely highlight is that the travel industry faces a labour pool shortage. In other words, there are more jobs than there are qualified candidates to fill those jobs. So, I did highlight the airlines, but most sectors of the industry need young talent. They're really desperate to find young, great people to come into the industry. So, there are many pockets that definitely need our graduates.

I get constant emails from companies, employers, and they say, you know, "Please send us somebody who can fill this position, we cannot find anybody." So, it's a reality. They say that within the next three years, over 200,000 jobs in the industry will go unfilled just because the employer cannot find someone to fill that position.

That said, these employers are not looking for just anyone. They need people who are qualified and have a certain skill set, certainly. I mean, I am a little bit biased, but I think an education in tourism is definitely an important starting point into the industry.

But, the profile of our graduates who succeed, there definitely are some common characteristics, I would say. The first thing that employers often tell me is that we do train our students with the hard skills; they get to know GDS systems in a live environment and all that stuff. But what employers really care about the most is the attitude; they want somebody who really cares, who is passionate about the industry, who has great customer service, is great at dealing with people, and has communication skills. It's a reality of the current generation that there's so much focus on their phones that face-to-face communication sometimes lacks. In a service-based industry, it's crucial that they enjoy talking with people and want to share their passion for the industry with others.

So, again, it's almost hard to train people for this stuff, but it's that passion, that customer service, being great with people and being somebody who's dependable, who's actually going to do what they say they're going to do. Those are some of the characteristics, I would say.

How does one get their foot in the door? Should you just travel to the country you want to work in?

It depends on what you're looking for. If you want to just start in the industry—again, I'm a little bit biased—I think that's what we are amazing at doing. We have partnerships with most of the major tour operators and airlines across the country, and part of our program is a seven-week internship, which I always say is like a seven-week interview. As I mentioned, there is a labour shortage, and most companies, if you're good over those seven weeks and you're showing you do have those attributes that they're looking for, you will end up with a job. In fact, our stats show that almost 60% of our newly employed graduates got those jobs straight out of their internships. So that's definitely a great starting point.

For those who don't have the time, or don't want to take a diploma, you can certainly go abroad. If you if you do want to work abroad, say you want to work in Thailand, running tours, there is definitely opportunity—I would say, you know, you can go there and give it a try. It obviously helps to speak the local language and be very familiar with that culture. Why would I hire you to take people on tours of Thailand? If you're a tourist yourself and you've been there for a couple of weeks? The more you travel, the more specialized you become in a location, the better off you'll be. When I started as a guide for G Adventures, I'd been going down to Latin America regularly, had travelled extensively there, and had also picked up Spanish. So, that was really my selling point. If you don't have those selling points, it can be quite difficult to get in the door by going abroad.

Can you tell us more about having a specialty and building a niche?

Right now, in the industry, if someone is going to book general travel, they do it online because it makes the most sense. It's a packaged product that is so simple to book online; agents who book that type of travel are going to whittle down in the next few years. It won't exist.

Where people want expertise, and they really need expertise, is that complicated or niche type of product. What is so great about this industry, and what I love about it, is that you can commercialize your passion. If you love photography, and that's your thing, and you know the best destinations in the world to do photography, you know what time you need to get up to get that perfect shot of the leopard in the tree, you can commercialize that. You can start a small company that takes people or small groups to Tanzania to get photos of the leopard in the tree. If you love a region—say you love Southeast Asia—and you've spent a lot of time there, you really know it, and that's your specialty—you could work in Southeast Asia, you know, taking people around. Or, you could sell very well. People who want customized trips to Southeast Asia, you know, maybe they don't want to do the typical beaches in Thailand. They want to customize. "Where do I go to really get to know Cambodian culture?" And, if you know that, you can commercialize that, and you can actually do quite well.

So, what I would say is, right now, it's all about specialization, and there's not going to be a lot left for people who just think they're going to sell travel. It's really about finding what you're passionate about and making that your business. We actually had a cruise night last night, where we brought in suppliers from the cruise industry. We brought in one of the top retail salespeople, who works for an Expedia cruise ship center, to talk about how he sells cruises. And he said, "My top tip is: go cruise." This guy had been on, I think, 250 cruises. Whenever he has any time, he goes on a cruise. He can tell you, you know, the make of the fridge on the specific Norwegian vessel—like, this guy knows every little detail, and so it's that type of knowledge, and passion, and specialty, that will get you a job and make you successful.

What did you look for when you were hiring in this sector?

For better or worse, I don't think the hiring process has changed in 100 years, and people still want the same thing they did 100 years ago.

It's maybe the format of an interview or a resume is new, but what people are looking for at the end of the day is pretty much the same thing.

So, they want to know that you care about their company. In other words, you come in, and from your research, you understand the company. You've spent time and effort really getting to know who they are before you walk in the door.

There's nothing I can say that you can't find in a Google search about how to get a great job. It's pretty standard stuff. I would say the one thing that's unique in this industry is that I care that you've travelled a lot, and I want to see what destinations you've gone to, and I want to know that you're not just doing this because you want a paycheck, that this is an industry you've invested yourself in. So, for this industry specifically, I would say highlight where you've been and how long you've spent in those countries. That's actually important stuff, and the more experience you've had in different destinations, the more to your benefit.

How might someone get a travel job if they haven’t had a chance to travel much? Is there still a way to get into the sector?

Again, my bias here, but I think we do a good job even with people who haven't travelled a lot: we can get them in the front door of these companies. What we find is that after our program, even for those students who haven't had that experience, we can get them in the front door, and that's their start. They can get some of that travel experience in our program; I'd say we're the leaders in Canada for international education. So, all of our students have the opportunity to study in France and Taiwan; I'm running a trip to Peru in April; we also have a class where the entire class builds a customized trip, and then they actually take that trip. So, as part of our program, we try to give people that travel experience as well.

For those who don't want to go to college, I would say there are still a lot of ways to travel for free. People who are Canadian are so fortunate; many of us can speak fluent English and can very easily pick up a job in Japan teaching English. You can go volunteer in many places. I'm not talking about going and staying at three-star hotels, but you need to get out there. And if you need to make that happen via a really cheap backpacking trip, or volunteering, or working abroad, that's valuable stuff in this industry. It really is.

Are there specific skills or education that you need to thrive in this industry?

I want to tell you a story that I always tell my students. I know a guy here at the college who runs a program called Game Programming, which is where they learn to produce video games. So I was talking to this guy at a conference last summer, and we realized we had something in common in our programs. I said, "Who is coming to your program?" He said, "Well, people who love video games, right? That's what they do. They spend their weekends in the basement playing whatever video game they love." I said "similar to me" because my students come because they love the idea of travel or love to travel.

We got to talking, and he said that loving video games isn't going to get you a job. Like, it's great that you love video games, and that's important, but is that going to earn you money? No. What we do for two years in the video game programming program is teach people to code. So, the fact that you love video games is wonderful, but the fact that you can code and you understand systems is a different skill altogether.

So, in travel and tourism, again, the base is, "I love travel," and that is so important. But, I always say, we in travel speak the language of business. So, although it is a very exciting industry and there is lots to do, if you don't understand business, you don't understand commission structures, you don't understand marketing, sales, some of these really businessy skills, well loving travel is, unfortunately, not enough to make you do well. There's a lot more to it than just that. I would say people who want to get into this industry have to study and understand business, social media, marketing, sales, and all that.

How important are hard skills versus soft skills in this sector?

So the interesting thing is that a lot of employers will train students in the hard skills. If, in this program, for example, there's a new system that we don't teach—which happens often, we don't teach every system in the industry—the employers say, totally fine. They're happy to spend time training new employees on the system. But, they need to come in with that will to succeed, and they need to want to do that. Again, it's a lot about attitude, this stuff, and the soft skills are, I hate to say, almost as important, if not more important. than the hard skills.

Are there any common mistakes you see amongst entry-level employees?

Well, I find that sometimes people's expectations aren't in line with reality. In any industry you start in, unless your dad owns the company, you probably will be starting on the phones in a customer service position—and that sounds, for some people, bad. In fact, that's the best place to start in the industry, because you get to know the customers, you get to know all of the products. It might not be the job you want to do for the next 20 years of your life, but it really is the best place to start for a lot of reasons.

We find that with our graduates, we do get them in the industry, typically in those customer service roles or, you know, marketing coordinator type roles—and the ones who care, and the ones who are great, within five years, they are in management.

But, again, there's nothing wrong with starting at the bottom. In fact, that's very much part of the industry and something people should expect. So, I would say that is one of the mistakes people make. And the other thing is, sometimes, you know, in this industry, you need to take a job that is not the job you dreamt about your whole life. It's just about getting in, and getting one really great name on your resume that is recognized—that will catapult you throughout your career.

You mentioned the importance of business and marketing in this sector, as well as knowledge of tourism. Are those degree programs equally valid if you want to work in this sector?

That's a fair question. We're actually starting a new program here at the college. It's called Adventure Travel Management, and it's to get people into adventure travel companies in a business role. So, you know, becoming a marketer for G Adventures, or something like that.

We've talked a lot to employers, especially over the past couple of months, about what that program would look like. And what they say is that the most important thing is attitude. After that, they look at the hard skills, somebody who has a travel educational background, will be ranked higher than someone who has just a generic business degree, because they want to know that people are committed to this industry. If that person isn't available, they are more than happy to then move down the rank and be like, "Okay, we need a marketer. This person has learned how to market Coca-Cola, good enough. Let's, let's go with it." So, because we're not producing enough graduates, that's what is happening in the industry. They are saying, we'll go with just the generic marketer, because they know how to market. But if a person has some travel education and a marketing background, that would be their preference for sure.

Can you talk to us about the challenges of working in the field?

I would say, I've done a lot of different jobs. The hardest job I ever did was leading tours. It is phenomenally difficult, phenomenally rewarding. At the same time, I will admit, after three years, I pretty much broke down, and I knew it was sort of the end, because it is very intense.

You know, the great thing about customer service, when you live somewhere permanently—you work at a restaurant and you serve people—is, you know, at five o'clock, no matter how bad your day is, you're going home. You're going to sit down, have a glass of wine, and forget about it. In the world of tour guiding, there's no such thing. It's 24 hours of full-on customer service.

So, I would say that's the biggest challenge of the job. You're the first one up, and then you're expected to go out and show people a good time in the evening as well. It's a pretty intense lifestyle. That said, I mean, what other chance will you have in life to see the world for free and get paid to see the world?

It is a crazy job. Anytime you take people on holiday, they are spending their hard-earned money. And, you know, people in Canada get two to three weeks of vacation. This is precious time to them, and they have very high expectations—and they should have high expectations—so it is about making sure you're delivering on the brand promise of the company.